mixing lithium and agm batteries on a boat

My thinking would be to use an AC charger for the house bank - since that'll most likely be the one you seriously draw down on and need high charging capacity. They opted to charge the AGM off a separate charger. Bert. I like the advantages of lithium. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Copyright 2023 Techchoco. If you want to go Lithium - just get a 24v lithium battery to replace both old AGMs. You can post now and register later. PS - Worth noting from this setup is that the Lithium becomes the primary source of power with the LA / AGM serving as backup and maintained at float. Should I have one for each alternator? This is less of a problem when combining old and new Lithium batteries because the BMS in the old battery will cut off before the battery is exhausted. Generator start battery. Today's question comes from Ryan H, who asks: Can I connect my new BLUETOPD31M in parallel with my one-year old (Other brand) Marine 29 series? But I didnt quite realize what I was getting intotypical. I've been doing a lot of reading on this issue. The better way is to use an isolator. Lets talk about AGM batteries for a minute. Weve got more answers! The "house load" is supported by both Bank 1 and Bank 2 through a battery combiner (I built my own using Schottky diodes, but commercial combiners are available). It will grab the nearest source, the lithium battery. Series Connections This type of connection is used when you need to increase the voltage of your battery bank. Thus in your case if the internal management shuts the Li batteries down, the load of the AGM will still prevent your concern most likely. The problem is, when the two batteries do not match then they will fight, you do not want to tick off a lithium battery, because when they are not treated the way they want.they catch on firequickly..very quicklythen they burn white hot and burn up anything within there reach !! Rugged A lead-acid battery will fa il prematurely due to sulfation : If it operates in deficit mode during long periods of time (i. e. if the battery is rarely, or never at all, fully charged). It sounds like your batteries are different in each of those ways. RELiON offers 12V and 24V lithium batteries. Yanmar oil filters, anyone not using the original yanmar oil filter would be just about the same as leaving it out completely, and there are sound technical reasons for this not just Yanmar trying to suck us dry. We strongly recommend you DO NOT attempt to mix battery sizes (amp-hours) and connect together. Lithium ion is a new addition to the marine industry. If you have an AGM battery, use a multi-stage smart charger. The same would go when I ran agms. Combining an old lead acid battery with a more capable battery in series is kind of like combining an old mule with a stronger younger mule in a team. With this understanding, its evident that as long as the right voltage limit is set for the lithium ion battery youre charging, leaving a lithium ion battery on the charger shouldnt be a problem. If the AGM wasnt present would the alternator voltage go higher? While they have some similarities, these two types of batteries also have some key differences that you should be aware of before considering mixing them. I think the previous owner used the boat very lightly and possibly was always switched on bank 2. The basic rule is that when the battery strings are isolated from each other, they may be used in parallel as long as their overall voltage is the same. BLUE SEA 8110 Mini Clamp Multimeter - AC/DC, Battle Born Golf Cart 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery, Victron Lithium-Iron-Phosphate Battery 12.8V/100Ah, Battle Born 8D 270Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery, Victron Blue Smart IP22 Battery Charger 12V/30A (3 output), Battle Born G31 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery. Parallel Connections These connections are used when you want to increase the amperage of your battery bank. I have witnessed personally a lithium battery get hooked up to the wrong charger. AGM batteries are lead-acid batteries, while lithium batteries are lithium-ion batteries. If for some reason the Lithium Ion controllers shut-down one of the batteries, then the other battery in the "Real House Bank also shuts down, then, they would both be disconnected., If your Balmar 250 Amp alternator is trying to charge the batteries, it would see NO battery and it's diodes could get fried., By having an single "Emergency" AGM sitting as Battery 2, then the Alternator would have a place for the smart voltage regulator to send the current to. OPTIMA YellowTop AGM Spiralcell Dual Purpose Battery, Group Size 51R. Yep your 100% correct not mainstream not tested, and a risk. Well I went and did it. However, you should never be connecting different battery sizes together in the same bank! This is especially true for OPTIMA batteries, because their cells are connected with robust cast lead straps, as opposed to the . I was just asking the question for a better understanding. Here at Battle Born Batteries, we offer two different lithium battery sizes: our 100 Amp-Hour BB100 series and GC2 series, and the new 270 Amp-hour batteries. When youre building a battery bank for your mobile or off-grid application, it can be tempting to mix and match different battery sizes. Mixing Battery Sizes: What Happens? Lithium Batteries on a Boat Review - The Boat Galley The Lithium battery is NOT to be installed under the hood. I'm assuming that you're looking at keeping the banks separate (1 AGM bank for starter, another AGM bank for bow thruster, and 1 Li bank for house loads). This in your case, it could solve the problem, if you take a diode with higher current. A lot faster. It needs to be smothered in sand. which of course we all carry on our boats !!! Thanks. The young mule will be held back by the old one so the strength of the young mule will be underutilized. Limited Lifetime Warranty not a 1-year or pro-rated warranty like lead acid batteries. Its NOT compatible. I suppose that having the instrument lights on all the time would work. Happy to answer and consider any comments of course good bad critical or otherwise and I know there are many skeptics out there, but this is where Im headed.. If you want more details, you can check here . Just over two weeks ago, Alex Miller of Sea-Tek installed 300 amp-hours of Dragonfly Lithium Batteries on our boat. Underway, off shore power, the Odyssey battery terminal voltage rapidly drops to 12.8 volts, and the LiFePO4 batteries (Bank 2) pick up the entire load until a transition occurs at 12.8 volts, where the Odyssey battery begins to take up the load. Yeti 3000 is a 3-kWh, 70-lb NMC lithium battery that can support four circuits. Well I went and did it. There are four different chemical types of marine batteries for your boat: wet cell (flooded), gel cell, absorbed glass mat (AGM), which are all lead-acid batteries, and lithium. Are the batteries waterproof? should never be connected. There is not a tried and tested setup from what I can see. Marine Battery Breakdown: Dual Purpose vs. Deep Cycle vs. Starting The voltage is increased by connecting the batteries in series, but the total amp-hour capacity is not increased. Its not a good idea to mix and match battery brands. Hi all. Any attempt to connect Battle Born Batteries of different amp-hours will result in avoidedwarranty. Battery Mixing integrating Lithium Lifepo4 AGM or Gel If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Heres How to Find Out! If you believe you have an equivalent oil filter to Yanmars send me the specifications as I have yet to find any out of about 15 I have looked at. Choose a suitable model for the type of battery and the charge you need to produce. We highly advise against attempting to connect batteries of different capacities (amp-hours) together. you do not want to tick off a lithium battery, because when they are not treated the way they want.they catch on firequickly..very quicklythen they burn white hot and burn up anything within there reach !! We would strongly discourage anyone from connecting batteries in series or parallel applications, if the batteries are not identical in age, size and type. This will cause the highest voltage battery to charge the lowest voltage battery attempting to create balance in the circuit. Mixing AGM and Lithium batteries - Cruisers & Sailing Forums They have different, Location: La Ciudad de la Misin Didacus de Alcal en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva Espaa. Bert, Hi Deering, Sorry, I overlooked the real problem and just gave some nonsense, my apology for that . This is due to the fact that the load characteristics and capacities of various batteries are vastly different, potentially posing a safety risk. The manufacturer of my Lithium battery (Battle Born) suggests not combining a new battery with one more than 4 years old. But, for the sake of understanding, do you have more information as to why or better, why not? You must log in or register to reply here. Gel cell batteries are similar to the AGM, but utilize a dense gel paste instead of an electrolyte liquid. Your link has been automatically embedded. I know that they charge and discharge differently and I get the logic of replacing both at the same time. 2 x AGM in bank 1 2 x AGM in bank 2 Bank 1 still has very robust voltage but bank 2 has failed and needs to be replaced. If you have a 24V trolling motor, you can use 2 12V batteries in series or a single 24V battery. Mixing AGM and Lithium Batteries: Is it Safe and Effective? A series banks batteries must all have the same amp-hour rating. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. JavaScript is disabled. Nor may it be copied, published, rewritten, or redistributed. This is to make sure any idle drains (alarms, remote start, etc) does not overly deplete the battery. So firstly some information: Im sorry to say the one they show as compatible for my 4JHTE (and your 3JH2E) is no where near it. Let me think about it in how to solve that problem. Similarly, Can you mix lithium and lead-acid batteries? I use 2 Schottky diodes, one to the lithium battery and 1 to the Deep charging AGM. Advice on Mixing Lithium Batteries and AGM Batteries? In normal situations, I never intend to use the banks in "BOTH" in normal situations., We cruise from Annapolis to Maine each summer. Whether you choose to use AGM or lithium batteries, or a combination of both, it is important to follow best practices for battery use. If the AGM is full will it reject any current from the alternator in the event that the lithiums shut down? But I didn't quite realize what I was getting into.typical. It has been explained to me that LifePo4 batteries are not to be charged to full capacity, but operated in a range below full charge. Josh and Rachel from Voyages of Agape have been living on their sailboat, Agape. Dual Purpose Deep Cycle Lithium Marine Trolling Battery Group 34 Replaces Optima 34M 800CCA. Any attempt to connect Battle Born Batteries of different amp-hours will result in avoided. We want to upgrade the house bank to lithium. Mixing AGM and Lithium Batteries: Is it Safe and Effective? Even if they were from various manufacturers, a device might operate well on a set of four alkaline C batteries. SKYLLA 24V 15A charger ---> TS400 DC-DC Converter ---> LiIo-Battery 25,9V - possible? If the lithium is rated as a starting battery, then yes. The BMPRO Invicta lithium batteries, for example, may be connected in parallel with up to four other batteries. For the longer explanation on why this is a very bad idea, keep reading. We are replacing our alternator with a 170 Ah high capacity in preparation. The heat causes the batterys cells to breakdown more quickly than normal. I skimmed the specs for the centaur, and it looks like you may have to do some research on whether you can match the voltage settings on it with the lithiums you're intending to get. Energy might flow but it won't be much. These connections are used when you want to increase the amperage of your battery bank. attempt to mix battery sizes (amp-hours) and connect together. AGM should give a longer life, should expect 12 years, I have a Odyssey in a boat and going on 11 years now. As batteries age (or get used), their charge/discharge profile changes. This mode may be automated on certain chargers and cannot be switched off. I agree with your last sentence "There is not a tried and tested setup" (yet) and also that it seems likely the lithium becomes the primary source. It shuts charging off and on to prevent thermal run away. Second, the batteries do not have to be identical. With an AGM in parallel I havent seen the voltage from my Volvo internally regulated alternators exceed 13.5. At 12.8 volts, the LiFePO4 batteries are substantially depleted. Two lithium batteries of equal voltage and amperage are recommended as the maximum battery bank size. However, the cheapest solution would be to have a small light or other small load so the alternator would never be without a load. Current Visibility: Viewable by moderators and the original poster, https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/19981/mixing-lead-acid-and-lithium.html. PDF FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - Lion Energy OPTIMA (R) Batteries represent the ultimate in performance and quality. Equalization is not required for lithium batteries. I believe they meant for long runs like spot lock in a fast current. Secondly, What happens if you use a lead-acid charger on a lithium battery? Copyright 2023 Dragonfly Energy. All the batteries were stamped Sep 2007. Lithium and AGM together - Marine Electronics - Bass Fishing Forums Would the stronger battery get overheated trying to feed the motor and the weak battery or would it just wear down sooner? The old mule will be pushed beyond its capability by the young mule and probably wont last long. Different brands of batteries can have different charging and discharging characteristics, with some accepting a charge or delivering current faster than others. AGM batteries also tend to have lower internal resistance. PDF 12,8 & 25,6 Volt Lithium-Iron-Phosphate Batteries Smart - Victron Energy What are the best Lithium Marine Batteries for house and engine batteries. Also, it is asked, Can you mix regular batteries with lithium batteries? Batteries: 3 x 75ah Relion LiFePO4 Lithium Batteries. Check out our, Amps, Volts, Watts: Differences Explained In Simple Terms. Is there a way to design the system to charge the AGM's for the start and thruster banks, and lithium for the house bank? Pin it! LIFEPO4 at up to 90% and both have different charging characteristics, I personally think it not worth the hassle and potential setup challenges with at least multiple BMS's etc. Your local shop where you buy your third party oil filter wont have a clue, and will tell you its compatible and your Yanmar dealer wont be able to tell you why or what the difference is. https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/19981/mixing-lead-acid-and-lithium.html. No parasitic draw issues (not to mention saving some weight). Your email address will not be published. Can you mix lithium and lead-acid batteries on an energy storage project? If one battery in a 24 volt system, run by AGM batteries ,were to die, what would be the pros and cons of putting a lithium in as a replacement. That can only happen when your Lithium battery is gone down so low in Voltage, that the difference in voltage will course the alternator to be overloaded. Currently, it lists 56 different battery options. Are AGM Batteries Good for Trolling Motors? The greater the difference in voltage, the higher the probability of battery failure. Because my inverter draws 100 A - which is connected to and drawn from only the Odyssey battery. Once again this is just for knowledge. This is critical. You cannot connect batteries of different amp-hours in series with good results. Anyway, I still have fairly new AGM's and am not really in the market. Read This Before Posting! Any imbalance could make one set exceeding the limit for charging a LiFeP04. OK, we nailed this to start. Are you wondering if it is possible to mix AGM (absorbed glass mat) and lithium batteries? #1 Ok, I know Im out on a limb here with the general consensus. Many come with a lifetime warranty which certainly . One of the main differences between AGM and lithium batteries is their chemical composition. Switching to Lithium Batteries on Your Boat - Power & Motoryacht That way, if one battery goes bad, far fewer batteries need to be replaced. Let us know if you have any additional questions about wiring or want to purchase more batteries for your system. It is important to consider the differences between these two types of batteries and follow best practices for battery use to ensure optimal performance and longevity. If you are considering mixing these batteries, it is best to consult with a professional or refer to the manufacturers guidelines. What Size Wiper Blades for 2015 Subaru Impreza? Batteries are essentially interchangeable as long as they are the same size and belong to the same chemical category (all lithiums, all alkalines, etc.). Why lithium-iron-phosphate? What are your options? lots of good info here. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Feb 15, 2008 103 Hunter 49 Sydney Jan 10, 2020 #21 Dlochner: Hi Dave you didn't comment on the oil filter I mentioned before Did you agree or see my point. Mixing AGM and lithium On our boat, we currently have AGM batteries for the house bank (3 ea), start battery (1), and the bow thruster (2). Or will it always provide some place for the current to go in the short term (milliseconds I assume)? So what may/will happen is the charge controller will shut off the battery shunting your alternator. Step 2 - Choose the Appropriate Aftermarket Charger. Unfortunately, that means when one battery in a bank of two or more batteries needs to be replaced, they should all be replaced at the same time. Your email address will not be published. Stop charging lifepo4 when battery is full. Thanks Bertku. Weve got more answers! This means that they have different charging requirements and can perform differently in certain situations. Subscribe and Like our channel for more partnered videos! That is the principle of the voltage regulator, The only problem you must check, if the AGM is 14.40 it shuts down (szghould be, but check) , but if the AGM is 14 volt, it will still charge and 14.4 divided by 4 = 3.6 and it very close to the maximum voltage a LiFeP04 is allowed during charging. Once the car is off, the isolator acts like a big electronic switch, removing the AGM battery from the circuit and avoiding any parasitic draw when the car is off. Your previous content has been restored. 6 Factors To Compare When shopping for deep cycle batteries you should look at these 6 details while comparing AGM to Lithium to determine which is right for your equipment's power demands and your budget. The type you choose is based on your needs (engine starting versus deep cycle), the capacity and lifespan you are looking for and your budget. Got more questions? We will go over all three. We want to upgrade the house bank to lithium. AGM batteries are generally heavier than lithium batteries due to their lead-acid construction. Due to differences in battery management systems and battery cell counts, there may be a charging and voltage discrepancy between batteries. Lithium boat batteries were a huge upgrade for Barefoot Gal. This is a tricky one, because you can't change Li when below freezing, so a separate LA system is needed. Lithium vs lead acid or AGM batteries | Downeast Boat Forum All rights reserved. They also have a shorter lifespan compared to lithium batteries, which can last up to three times longer. Then use a suitable DC-DC converter to top up the starter and bow thruster banks. 2 Year LIMITED WARRANTY. Its delicate, and it needs a protective circuit to keep it running safely. A good voltage regulator always shuts down the main source of the alternator and therefore I dot think you should be worried. Should I use DC to DC charger like the Victron Orion-Tr or a battery combiner like the Blue Seas IC-ACR? Different types of batteries (flooded or AGM) also can have different charge/discharge characteristics. It looks to me as though those numbers are fuel filter numbers. $289.99. The response below are not for a minute suggesting Im right, they are my thinking out loud and answers to some of the comments, in the hope that someone with better technical knowledge than I will agree or shoot it down technically. As LifePo4 batteries are a completely different technology, I think you need to do a lot more research before you jump into using them in conjunction with conventional batteries. The mixing lead acid and lifepo4 batteries is a question that has been asked many times. The turn-on wire would be connected to the amplifier's remote wire. Do you wish to experience what seems to be limitless lithium power? Additional resources still need to be added for this topic. Privacy Statement. Yes, you certainly can. Let's get this out of the way up front: A lithium battery can cost three or four times as much as a lead-acid AGM battery of similar nominal capacity. Two 200Ah lithium batteries, for example, may be connected in parallel. 3+ day shipping. BATTERY SIZE Battery size is directly related to capacity, affecting the energy stored and the runtime of your trolling motor. AGM batteries are more sensitive to overcharging, so if you're using a lead acid charger, it may not be able to properly charge the AGM battery. I can alter our electrical loads within reason, but I've built redundancy into our systems.. BBug Length (in): 12-13/16 Inch. With a background in literature and creative writing, KC has a talent for crafting compelling characters and immersive worlds. Philippi Monitoring System. We print our 800 number (888-8-OPTIMA) and e-mail address (info@optimabatteries.com) on every battery we sell. Connecting batteries in parallel enhances total current capacity and overall amp-hour capacity by lowering total resistance. Ok that makes sense. I'd suggest you read this before moving forward: This article details the relations between voltage, state of charge, current and temperature for lithium iron phosphate (LFP or LiFePO4) battery banks. Overheating a Li-Ion automobile battery is quite dangerous. Lithium battery have their own microprocessor (charge controller). KC Spectra is a dynamic and versatile author with a passion for storytelling. The best way? Dragonfly Energy collects personal information for its internal use. What are the best batteries for your boat? at Batteries Plus Effectively what youll do is push charge from the lithium to the lead acid constantly. can you use a lithium battery as a starting battery, can you jump a lithium battery with a lead acid battery, can you mix agm and lithium batteries for solar system, can i charge a lead acid battery with a lithium charger, mixing lithium and agm batteries on a boat. Casts, when you mentioned the push from one source to the other, with lead acid and agm, is there an issue other then drawing the more powerful battery down quicker? AGM batteries are a type of lead-acid battery that have traditionally been used in cars. Most commonly, parallel-only connections are found in 12V systems. Lithium batteries also have their strengths and weaknesses too. Save with. I think I follow you. longer than AGM and requires far less charging time to fill up. The lithium battery, on the other hand, will drain into the AGM since the AGM's resting voltage is lower than the lithium's. That would take many weeks, but the two kinds of batteries may be used in parallel if charged and utilized on a weekly basis. Also, join us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube to learn more about how lithium battery systems can power your lifestyle, see how others have built their systems, and gain the confidence to get out there and stay out there. Can I Connect Dissimilar Batteries in Parallel. The most typical connection is a parallel termination, which increases the power while maintaining the same voltage as each individual battery.
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